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  Public Ticket #3404670
Recurring dates RRULE
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  • Nigel started the conversation

    We would like to schedule events that occur for example on 1st, 3rd and 5th Thursday of each month in one go.

    How can we do this?

    In our previous events calendar we were able to create an RRULE for this, however I cannot see where to enter this?


    Hope you can hellp


    Regards Nigel

  •  1,619
    Marko replied

    Hello Nigel,

    Thank you for reaching out to us.

    Unfortunately, currently, this feature is not built-in in Amelia. All dates for events must be set manually like this

    4987082955.png

    You need to add date for each day when you want to hold events.

    I'll kindly ask you to add it as a feature suggestion on this link https://features.wpamelia.com/

    Features are pushed up on our "to-do" list when there are a lot of customers requesting those features, so having your vote as a customer can be beneficial to this feature being developed sooner.

    If you have any more questions please open a new separate ticket for each question and we will gladly help you there.

    We wish you all the best.

    Have a nice day. 



    Kind Regards, 

    Marko Davidovic [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    I was not expecting that response from a mature plugin and am surprised to find such a missing feature. I am finding gaps that make this plugin not work well for me. I have now found a related bug which may be due to the RRULE not being implemented. As mentioned previously I wanted to schedule an event for the 1st, 3rd and 5th Thursday of each month. Looking at the drop down of the recurring date... there is the option of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, then LAST. Unfortunately LAST does not mean 5th... so when selected, if the last Thursday of the month is actually the 4th Thursday of the month... it will create an event... this is not correct...  are you able to do an urgent fix... ?

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi, Nigel.

    As colleague Marko said, we currently do not have a way to achieve this with Amelia, unfortunately.

    We are not able to tell Amelia to set up first, second, third and fifth Thursday for each month.

    -

    ( For example, if we say, this Event will happen on 6th, 13th and 20th of July ,and make it recurring, then each Month will use the 6, 13, and 20 as Dates - Amelia is currently not capable to determine which days are Thursdays etc);

    -

    At this time, we simply do not have this logic available in Amelia,

    so there is nothing to fix, since this is not available in our plugin yet.

    Sorry for the inconvenience.

    -

    You can make a development suggestion, and our devs will do their best to work on it as soon as possible.

    Please feel free to search through our feature suggestion page

     to see if someone may be already suggested this feature. If you can't see it, feel free to add your suggestion there, and as more people vote, the feature will move higher on the priority list.

    You can certainly follow our changeLog page if you'd like, where we state any changes/new features/bug fixes during updates;

    and our newsletter, so you're informed about new features, bug fixes, freebies, etc.

    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    Thank you for your reply. I understand the difficulty with recurring events. My site also runs Stachethemes Events Calendar (see Code Canyon), which provides standard calendar features however also provides a field to enter an RRULE instead  and this is the feature I am asking you to implement as it enables any recurrence to be created in the calendar.
    Without it there is no easy work around for recurrences such as the 5th Thursday of a month... offering only the Last of a particular day of the month means something else... in our case where there is not a 5 thursday is will add an event on the 4th Thursday...

    Would you please as a matter of urgency look at implementing this RRULE capability as it is a standardised way of address this? I have provided a link here with more information... (it is not the only reference however it does refer to iCal standards which may be of interest also...).

    I have put this also in an existing request (https://features.wpamelia.com/1633) however I see this was raised 4 months ago and looks so far to not even be planned... and this is my fear you have a long list of feature requests some with 100s of votes raised for months with no action... I do believe this RRULE is a signficant issue and would ask you to escalate it... I hope to hear from you...

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi, Nigel.

    I completely understand what you mean.

    Thank you for providing the additional explanations and feedback, we appreciate it.

    All of these details have been passed to our developers.

    We will do our best to have them work on this as soon as possible,

    but we still can't promise a realistic ETA, because there are a lot of other features that users request as well.

    Our Planning Team is doing their best to manage the priority levels on all features.

    As more people vote on a specific feature/option,

     that feature will move higher on the priority list.

    As mentioned before, you can certainly follow our changeLog page and we will state there when the feature has been finished.

    Sorry that we can't provide an accurate ETA on it.

    Thank you again for this suggestion.

    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    This is where it is difficult... you will not be tied to an ETA yet I am tied to decide on requesting a refund in 15 days from purchase.... this issue with RRULE is quite fundamental...  how am I supposed to move from here?

  •   Miloš replied privately
  • Nigel replied

    HI Miloš

    I appreciate your response and your openness with me... it would help to know it will be fixed in the shorter-term even if you cannot give an actual ETA, particularly as I have provided reference information using ical standard references...  your advertising information session says that Amelia comes with recurring date function... it would be good for you to adopt the standard RRULE for this...

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi, Nigel.

    No problem, i am happy to advise as much as possible.

    We have a policy to be transparent to our users, so that we can have realistic expectations.

    In regards to this specific feature, this will require a new logic to be implemented in Amelia's core,

    that would look for which specific dates would be only for a specific day in each month,

    such as in your use-case.

    At this time Amelia only has the logic when we provide the specific dates, as mentioned earlier.

    We can set a recurring Event to go "every 2 weeks", then if we start from first Saturday this Month, for example if we took July,

    it can go 1st Saturday ( 1st July), 3rd Saturday ( 15th),

    and 5th Saturday falls on 29th July,

    but then when the August starts, it would skip the first Saturday, so as you pointed out, with the current options we don't have a valid solution for that kind of custom recurrence.

    5561563544.png

    When we add new logic to Amelia, first our developers need to create a solution,

    then our QA Team needs to conduct a lot of testing to ensure that a new logic added would not create bugs or other issues to other existing Amelia functionalities,

    before it gets implemented in the plugin's core.

    At this time, we don't have any estimate as to how difficult it would be for our developers to add this logic,

    we have not tried anything like that before, so we can't say any realistic ETA at this point, unfortunately.

    You can follow the status of the Feature on the "Suggest Feature" page, and of course,

    when it is finished it will be stated on the ChangeLog in one of the future updates.

    -

    I agree with you, if our devs manage to add this soon, it would be a major improvement as additional option for custom recurring Events like that.

    Thank you for your feedback and the suggestion, we truly appreciate it.

    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    HI Miloš

    Just to be clear.,.. your devs do not need to design a solution, this has already been done with RRULE... please advise them of the link I provided with referencing the iCAL standards... all they have to do is implement the field for the RRULE... It is not a design from first principles, rather an implementation of existing design/standard...I quote from this link:

    Some examples first:

    We can choose one or more days of the week to repeat on, and even alternate between specific days:

    RRULE:FREQ=WEEKLY;BYDAY=TH # every Thursday

    RRULE:FREQ=WEEKLY;BYDAY=MO,WE,FR # every Mon, Wed and Fri

    RRULE:FREQ=WEEKLY;BYDAY=TU;INTERVAL=2 # every other Tuesday

    RRULE syntax goes far beyond these simple examples, including support for day of month (e.g. the third Thursday in November), week numbers, repeating on the same numerical day of a month, and plenty more. If you want to experiment more with specifying RRULEs, the rrule.js demo is a superb place to do so.

    Then...

    The RRULE

    The key to any repeating event is the recurrence rule, a way of describing how that event repeats. These are also referred to as RRULEs.

    Recurrence rules are primarily defined in RFC 2445, section 4.8.5.4, which also describes the full “iCalendar” spec for .ics files. Calendar providers like iCloud and Google Calendar provide downloads of these files for apps.

    The RRULE format encapsulates a repeating pattern, such as “every Thursday”. Combined with the event’s starting time, you can figure out exactly when each future occurrence of the event should begin. Note that the RRULE itself doesn’t encode the starting times.


    Regards Nigel

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi, Nigel.

    Thank you for sending these examples and further descriptions with reference to iCal standards.

    I have passed all of this to our developers,

    i believe it will help them when they start working on implementing this to Amelia.

    -

    I can understand what you mean, in terms of this logic already exists somewhere else,

    but it does not exist yet in Amelia.

    I see that it seems from your end that this should be easy for our developers,

    to implement this existing design/standard,

    but as I mentioned before, first they need to find a way to implement it in Amelia,

    then our QA Team needs to fully test everything to make sure that it does not cause any bugs/other issues to existing Amelia's code,

    and then they can add it in the end.

    It is a standard process that we follow for adding any new feature/option that does not exist in Amelia yet.

    Thank you again for the feedback and for this suggestion.

    We will do our best to add this as soon as possible.

    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    HI Miloš
    I understand... and thank you for saying that it will be attended to... this is good enough for me to stay with Amelia....  being a new customer, there will always be features that will improve the plugin, however there are a few 'gaps' that I hope will be filled quickly that frustratingly prevent it from being great as it is...  for me, it is just these gaps... which prevent it from preventing duplicate bookings, enable resource planning etc.. before new features this could make a real difference... eg:

    1) implementing the RRULE

    2) Link 'staff' (ie employees) attending events to the synced calendars (as when they attend an event it is effectively a booking)

    3) Extending resource use to events

    If there is any chance of quickly filling these gaps, Amelia could have consolidated its achievements with reliable view of bookings (people and other resources) whether from Appointments or events which after all surely is at the core of Amelia's purpose?


    Please if you can help with these

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi, Nigel.

    No problem, i am happy to advise.

    I agree with you, if our developers manage to add these points soon,

    it will be a major improvement for us.


    1. Thank you again for that suggestion for implementing the RRULE


    2. Yes, at the moment this is also not possible for Google Calendar,

    our devs are working to add this;

    but syncing of the Busy Slots works for the Outlook Calendar.

    So, if you can use the Outlook Calendar integration, and connect your Employees to their Outlook Calendars,

    then you can sync to block the busy time slots of the Events they are assigned to as Staff or Organizer,

    and it will block appointment booking in that time.

    Please check more here on connecting with Outlook Calendar.


    3) Extending resource use to events :

    Yes, that is currently not possible as well,

    but thank you for these suggestions,

    we will do our best to add all of them as soon as possible,

    but we can't say an exact ETA on them.

    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    Hi Miloš

    Ref your point 2, we are synced with outlook calendar and it does not show busy for staff attending events, only organiser... how can we fix this.... if this could work that would be great :)

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi, Nigel.

    I can see that you have a separate ticket open for the issue with the Outlook Calendar Sync not working as expected, on this ticket https://tmsplugins.ticksy.com/ticket/3405039/.

    My colleague and I will proceed to help you about this subject there,

    we will do our best to keep responding as quickly as possible to all open tickets.

    -

    When you have multiple questions or issues which are for different subjects/topics,

     please proceed like that, it is best to open a new ticket for each subject, 

    and we will help/advise more effectively. 

    In that way, issues and questions which are related to different subjects will be in separate tickets so other users or our support agents can find them easily. 

    Our policy is to have one issue or question per ticket for the reasons described already.

    Thank you for understanding.

    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    That is fair enough Miloš, my intention was just to illustrate how these 3 tickets/issues impact the ability to manage bookings, people and resources... and a bit of focus here would make a huge difference. However it is great that you can help me with this outlook item and I will keep that to the other ticket... and one ticket per issue

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi, Nigel.

    No problem at all.

    Of course, thank you once again for the suggestion.

    -

    In regards to the Outlook issues, yes - i read the ticket and we are just testing all the details you described in order to provide as accurate advice as possible.

    As soon as we finish the testing, we will report back on your other ticket to proceed on that subject.

    Thanks.

    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    HI Miloš 


    What is the progress with this issue...  if the RRULE approach is not easy to be implemented, then can you at least provide a 5th option, ie when setting recurring events, there is the option of 1,2,3,4, LAST, can you provide 1,2,3,4,5, LAST which would mean that if there is an event on the 5th Wednesday that it can be set...? the RRULE maybe the easiest way of achieving this, however providing the 5th option would also work... not bing able to properly create recurring events is causing us a number of problems... and this is a core feature that you advertise on your website... I have seen 2 new releases since raising it and so far it remains an issue...


    Kind regards

    Nigel

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi Nigel,

    Sorry for the delay on this reply, i took some time to check if we can get any kind of a rough ETA,

    and i am truly sorry to disappoint you,

    but so far you are the only user that requested this feature so it is not placed at a high priority yet.

    We carefully follow all our user's request and our management is handling all of them by priority based on how many users request a certain feature,

    and also of course, how difficult it is to add something like that.

    A feature like this would require a big change in Amelia's logic when it comes to setting up recurring intervals for Events.

    For the time being, the logic for setting the recurring interval is as explained on this Documentation.

    You can designate a timeframe for the repetition of single or multiple-day repeating events,

    The choices we have at the moment are Daily, Weekly, Monthly, or Yearly,

    we can choose "every" as a number to multiply,

    and we can set the "End Date" of the repeating.

    9405853428.png

    So, to add something like what you described will include a major change in the logic,

    which takes a lot of time, and we also did not start working on it yet,

    because our developers are already extremely busy working on high priority tasks such as maintenance, adding major high priority features which are requested from majority of other users,

    and fixing bugs,

    so i honestly can't say if or when something like that custom repeat interval will be possible.

    I hope that it might become possible in the near future, but we can't say a realistic ETA at this time.

    As mentioned before, you can certainly follow our changeLog page and we will state there if we add that feature.

    -

    I just have to quote you on this part, you wrote :

    "Not being able to properly create recurring events is causing us a number of problems... and this is a core feature that you advertise on your website."

    Can you please point out if you find that we advertise to have a custom repeating interval for recurring Events anywhere on our Website, and let me know?

    We have clearly stated on the Recurring Events Documentation that the interval can be only set as 

    Daily, Weekly, Monthly, or Yearly,

    we can choose "every" as a number to multiply,

    and we can set the "End Date" of the repeating.

    9405853428.png

    We are always transparent with our features and limitations on what Amelia can do,

    and what it can not do,

    so i have to disagree on that point.

    As mentioned, if you can find that we claim or advertise to have a custom repeat interval, let us know and we will correct it.

    -

    If you don't wish to wait and need to try a custom solution right now,

    our Support does not provide custom work and our developers are busy,

    but we are writing down customization requests,

    if you wish i can notify you if any of our devs become available for custom work in the near future,

    if you don't find anyone else in the meantime to try a custom solution, such as your own developer.

    Thank you.

     

    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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  • Nigel replied

    HI Miloš

    Thank you for taking the time to look into this further...

    I understand that you may not wish to re-engineer this solution to incorporate the RRULE approach... I would though ask you to consider a simpler change that would not interfere with any existing logic...

    At present if you choose recurring and monthly, you can set 'on' to the First, Second, Third, Fourth and Last...  the simpler approach that I am asking you to consider is to add a Fifth (5th) option in this list... 

    The logic is that it will only be TRUE when a 5th day of a month exists...

    This would not interfere with fourth or Last... as Last is effectively 4th or 5th anyway, where as 4th is exclusively 4th, and if added 5th would be exclusively fifth (5th)... this would make your recurring function complete... I hope this is clear and that it helps thing progress...

    Kind regards

    Nigel

  • Nigel replied

    Just to explain a bit further... 

    When I say 5th day of the month i mean the 5th Mon or Tuesday etc... this would not occur in every month  For example in September there is a 5th Friday (29th), however in October there is only 4 Fridays... so when Fifth (5th) Friday of each month is specified there would only be a calendar entry for September and December.


    Selecting Last Friday for each month, would create calendar not only September and December but also October and November where the Last Friday of those months would be the 4th Fridays... This is why 5th is an important option...

  •  1,855
    Miloš replied

    Hi Nigel,

    Thank you for providing further details and explanation of what we could add in terms of not changing the entire existing logic,

    bur rather to just add the Fifth (5th) option to this list.

    I have passed all the details to our developers and our management.

    They will do their best to add something like this as soon as possible.

    As mentioned before, you can always follow our ChangeLog and there it will be stated when it has been added.

    We are still not able to provide any realistic ETA when this might be possible,

    but as more people vote on your suggestion, the feature will move higher on the priority list.


    You can certainly follow our changeLog page if you'd like, where we state any changes/new features/bug fixes during updates;

    and our newsletter, so you're informed about new features, bug fixes, freebies, etc.


    Kind Regards, 

    Miloš Jovanović
    [email protected]

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